FAA RADES NORAD FOIA Data

UNITED STATES ARMY
CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY

INTERVIEW OF

NEIT-643

CONDUCTED BY

. S. ARMY CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY
305TH MILITARY HISTORY DETACHMENT

March 12, 2002

TAPE TRANSCRIPTION

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a like -- basically just like a normal routine for us,
we come in and --

How do you come in, by train or car?
I drive in, and I was parking at the

Pentagon .

you come in the same way?

I drive, yeah.

Basically when we first get in, the
first thing we do is do our timesheet and check our
e-mails to see what basically is going on, and that's
what I was doing that morning.

It was kind of slow that day . I think it was kind
of slow that day . So we were kind of like checking —
well , I guess we just happened to surf the Internet ,
and that’s when we saw the stuff about the Trade
Center .

So that's what we were doing at that time, and
around that time it was like 9, about 9 I think, and
they were basically explaining about what was going on
with the Trade Center.

You’re talking about the Internet
website you were looking at?

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1 We H' niy daughter had just started

2 day care. My daughter is 2 -years-old now. She was a

3 little bit less than 2-years-old at the time, and I had

4 just started her at that day care probably about two or

5 three weeks previously.

6 So I took her, dropped her off at the day care. I

7 went in, and I was getting ready to go to a meeting at

8 10:00. I had also scheduled my first exam to start my

9 MCSE 2000 track —

10 What day care did you drop her at?

11 the Pentagon. So I was

12 studying for my MCSE, and^^^ was sitting next to me,

13 probably about the same distance that you're sitting

14 from me now. He had asked me --

15 ( Pause . )

16 That's all right. Take your time. If

17 this is too difficult.

18 (Interruption to proceeding.)

19 So anyways, he was bugging me

20 about scanning some pictures for him, and I was

21 studying for my MCSE . I was like , " Leave me alone " or

22 something. I forgot exactly what I said. So I ended

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1 up scanning the pictures for him, and I had a whole

2 bunch of pictures on my desk that people had left.

3 I was the only person in the room with a scanner.

4 And so for some reason, right about at 9:00, I started

5 scanning all the pictures in, and I sent them all out

6 through the e-mail to everybody who wanted their

7 pictures scanned or whatever.

8 Then 1 read the e-mail that

9 {phonetic ) had sent to us , and she told us about the

10 World Trade Centers , and I didn ' t think anything of it .

11 I just went on studying.

12 Then I got a call from (phonetic ) ,

13 who was supposed to be at the meeting with us at 10:00

14 also, and we were talking about the World Trade

15 Centers. And I didn’t know exactly where they were.

16 So I asked him where they were, and he said they were

17 in New York.

18 Then all of a sudden it just hit me. I just hung

19 up the phone, and I just said -- in my head I was like,

20 "We’re next," and not even one or two minutes later the

21 whole room, I mean, was shook and caught on fire and

22 everything. And we were all thrown pretty much.

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1 It was a big -- it was tbis -- I

2 mean, it happened so fast. It was like one minute we

3 were sitting there , you know , looking at the Internet .

4 It was like we were so drawn to the Internet and was

5 reading the stuff they were saying, and the next thing

6 we know all of a sudden something just went bam.

7 It just happened so fast there's no way you could

8 react to that. And it's like everybody else -- the

9 people that were sitting where I was -- see, she was

10 sitting more like -- was it horizontal -- it was

11 horizontal , right?

12 I was sitting basically like on

13 this side --

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This side.

and they were sitting on the

back wall.

17 I went straight down. On that

18 particular day, like she was saying, what's

19 his last name?

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1 well, yeah, to my left also because I was sort of

2 facing the same way that you guys were.

3 Well, basically I remember that I didn't really

4 see the ball of fire. I guess I kind of got thrown,

5 and my head was like thrown down. I just remember

6 that, and it was so fast that I could feel my hire

7 moving, you know. The wind was -- or whatever it was

8 — was blowing my hair.

9 By that time I was -- after everything stopped

10 moving, I kind of lifted my head and looked, and all I

11 could see was fire. And I was stuck in between my

12 chair and my desk because my chair had gone under my

13 desk or my desk had gone over my chair somehow. So X

14 was having a lot of trouble getting out.

15 I thought that I saw over my desk, and

16 the way our desk is shaped, it’s like an E-shape, and

17 so I was sitting right here, and Scott was sitting

18 right here. So it wouldn't make sense for anybody else

19 to walk over two desks to get out . So I think that it

20 was him that walked over my desk, but I'm not a

21 hundred-percent positive.

22 But I couldn’t get out. At that time I thought

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1 that I was dead, you know, that there was nothing I

2 could do. And I kept on yelling for help and trying to

3 get out of my chair. I don't know how long it was

4 before I got out of my chair. But I ended up getting

5 myself out of the chair and started going the direction

6 that Scott went in.

7 And I walked at least -- I just remember looking

8 one way; there was fire and looking the other way,

9 there was fire, and I didn't know which way to go. At

10 that time I was by myself.

11 I walked probably like a couple hundred feet just

12 down the hall. Like I walked down the hallway and

13 Do Y ou know which direction?

14 WKBKBtB Yeah, I went -- I ended up going

1 5 thi s way , and I ended up back in - -

16 Towarc ^ s Corridor 5?

17 Yeah, I ended up in the back of

18 somebody's -- of QDR, which was right around here,

19 where they -- and I ended up in the back near their

20 cubicles. So I had walked through --

21 Was anybody still in there?

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Yes. But luckily somebody had

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1 gone out and come back in, and that was

2 (phonetic ) .

3 What was happening with you?

4 Well, at the time -- see, 1 saw the

5 whole ball of fire when it came in, and so we were —

6 like I say, we were sitting at our desks . So when it

7 came, it was just -- everything that was basically in

8 front of us just -- it's like it just dissolved.

9 All the computers and the PCs and everything just

10 dissolved, and it just threw us . All I know is that —

11 I mean, it was so hard -- the impact was so hard that

12 it threw me over almost in the corner because the room

13 wasn’t that big anyway. But it threw me over in the

14 corner.

15 And I remember I was -- I got up. You know, I got

16 up. I made myself pick up, get myself up, and the next

17 thing I remember is that I was in this corner . I don ' t

18 remember how I got over there . But I was in this

19 corner, and all I saw was metal from where the fire had

20 already burned everything up.

21 All I saw was metal, and it was like I was -- I

22 don’t know if I was in a state of shock or I was

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1 basically in disbelief because I was saying to myself,

2 "No, this can't be happening. This can't be happening.

3 Maybe I'm dreaming. I've just got to wake up."

4 So during this time , I didn ' t notice — at this

5 time, but I didn’t know it, my hair was burning, but I

6 didn't feel it, so I didn't know. So I was like

7 basically still in a state of shock.

8 So it took me a while -- it’s really kind of

9 strange to put it because I didn't actually move until

10 -- it was like I actually felt myself -- it was like I

11 was looking at my body, and I actually felt my feet

12 moving . And that 1 s when it actually dawned on me that

13 this was really happening .

14 So I was like, "Oh, my God, this is really

15 happening," and the fire was still blazing. Everything

16 -- the whole section where we were was just on fire.

17 And also where they were -- we were cut off from

18 them. The second floor caved in on us. So where they

19 were, we could not see them. There was a wall there.

20 So the entrance to get out of that building was

21 blocked. It was blocked. There was no way at that

22 time, you know, looking at it from that time, there was

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1 no way for us to get out of there.

2 Also , you have to keep in mind that there was this

3 wall there. So at the time it was kind of scary

4 because there was really no way to get out. So I think

5 I started trying to dig, trying to dig out or

6 something, and I think that ’ s how I got the burns on my

7 hand. But as far as the calluses, they were on the

8 inside of my hand.

9 Then I got up, and I was just kind of terrified.

10 I was just trying to get out. I mean, but you wouldn't

11 tell if you actually saw me. It was like I was like in

12 a trance, in this trance.

13 So when I got up, when I saw that there was no way

14 for me to dig out, then one of my coworkers -- his name

15 was -- he came behind me.

16 You know how you watch a movie and a film and how

17 the people, when something bad happened, there was a

18 fire or something, everybody was trying to knock people

19 over. So when he put his hand on my sholders, I was

20 already terrified. So I'm like, "What are you doing?

21 What are you trying?"

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And he looked at me and he said.

your hair

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1 is on fire" because that's what they call me. They

2 call me you know, abbreviated for

3 And he said, "Your hair is on fire. " So he then

4 took off his shirt. I didn't feel it. I still didn't

5 feel it. I didn't even see any fire. But he took off

6 his shirt and he put my hair out.

7 At that time the fire kind of basically just went

8 out. Then it was all this -- there was this thick

9 thick, dark dark smoke, really thick. So --

10 You mean the fire in the room went

11 out?

12 Yeah, the fire in the room went out.

13 It was just this big thick smoke, black smoke then at

14 that time. It was like the fire just went out, I guess

15 because everything had already burned up in - the room,

16 basically.

17 So I turned around, and he turned around, and I

18 said -- we were walking out or we were trying to walk

19 out anyway. I said to him, "I can't hardly breathe in

20 here," and he said, "I can't hardly breathe either."

21 So what I did at that time, I figured it was
easier for me to just take small breaths?

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So I tried

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1 not to breathe really hard and take in so much smoke.

2 So the whole room was dark, so you really couldn't

3 see anything. But I know we had to climb across --

4 from where I was, I was telling you there was a lot of

5 iron from where stuff had already burned up.

6 So I had to climb across a lot of stuff because I

7 think at first when that first -- he was down -- I

8 think he was kind of like down on the floor, but he

9 managed to get up.

10 So we were walking out, stepping across all this

11 debris and stuff from where everything had burned up,

12 and we were walking out. And on the way out, even from

13 when he was putting my hair out , I heard this girl — I

14 knew it was coming from my left, but you couldn't see

15 anything in there -- and I heard her -- from afar I

16 heard her saying, "Help, help, help, " but at the time

17 you couldn't see anything in there.

18 So as we were walking out , I guess she must have

19 saw me because I didn't see her at first, and she said

20 my name. She said, help me, " and it was really

21 strange because like I was telling you; you couldn't

22 see anything in there.

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it was like all of a sudden it's like the wind
came through. It was really — it was real strange.

It was just like something just came through and just
blew the smoke away, and that's how I saw her. Then I
was able to see her.

And she was kind of like buried under all this --
well, this part of her body, all this part of her body
was covered up.

The middle of her body?

Yeah, all that, and so —

And just laying back on the ground.
And I pulled her out and Stuart ,
and he grabbed her right hand to help me pull her out
to get her up on her feet, and from there —

Who was it?

Her name was

And so from there, we tried to get out.

Oh, one part I left out from when I was in that
corner. What was kind of like a guide to me, it was
this light that I saw, and it was a little light. It
was really small at first, and something told me -- it

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was like something told me follow that light.

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And as 1 got closer and upon us pulling^

'out, as I got closer, that's when I saw that it
was a big hole in the wall. It was a big hole in the
wall, and so that was our way out of there.

As we got closer to the hole, you know, all the
debris and everything was stacked up. So we had to
climb across all that stuff to get out, but we walked
-- we did walk out. We walked out.

All right. Do you know which
direction you cam out? You said you walked out. Did
you walk down one of the corridors? Did you walk
outside?

You went straight out, didn't you?
We went straight out.

So (inaudible) .

Yeah, right.

Out towards the heliport?

Uh-huh, right out that way.

You walked out on your own power, and
people saw you coming? Was anybody there when you came

out?

Well, right on the outside of the

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he was out there

5 So when, we were stepping out, he helped me step across

6 something to get out, and kind of like, I think, once

7 the sun -- once I got outside and felt the air and the

8 sun was beaming down , I think I kind of like kind of

9 lost it.

10 Then I realized — it was like I was calm on the

11 inside, but once I got outside, I kind of like freaked

12 out, and that's when I noticed everything: the third

13 degree burns on my hand, the second degree burns on my

14 left hand, my hair, and I had second degree burns on my

15 face. And I had burns on my back.

16 Everything just — I felt like there was fire on

17 me and it was burning. It was burning, it was burning.

18 So he was saying, "Calm down. Calm down. You're

19 alive," but I really couldn't. It took a while for me

20 actually to calm down.

21 And the sun was beaming down on me. So he walked

22 me over to this area where they had everybody out on

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1 the grass.

2 Was there firefighters there at that

3 time? Was there anybody --

4 There was military personnel. There

5 was military personnel there.

6 mmm hike people who worked in the

7 Pentagon?

8 Yes, and there was a chaplain, he

9 was there, and he was over kind of consoling --

10 consoling me and because we both — we were side

11 by side.

12 They had to continuously pour water on me because

13 X was telling them that I was on fire. Even though I

14 wasn't on fire, I felt like I was on fire. So they had

15 to keep pouring water on me . They had to cut my shirt

16 I think because the shirt was burned. So they ripped

17 the shirt, and they wrote who you were on the back of

18 the shirt.

19 And at this time, I saw He was to

20 my far left because I think he was already out, but he

21 was like shaking his hands, and his skin and stuff was

22 hanging off his hands. And he had all the burns on his

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1 face.

2 pretty hysterical too. I guess if I

3 wasn't burned at the time, I guess what she said to me

4 would have been funny. But I was just totally out of

5 it. She said to me, she said, Y ou don’t have a

6 flip anymore" because my hair was in a flip style at

7 that time. So it was like -- it was all mushed up, and

8 she was like,^^^| you don't have a flip anymore."

9 And she was telling me because I was kind of

10 deranged then. So she was telling them, "Please help

11 her because she’s burned real bad. Please help her, "

12 and so I think what they basically were doing is they

13 were pulling out the people who had the most serious

14 injury at first.

15 I remember the first person they took was^J^^^J^

16 ^^^^Upbecause he had burns all the way up his arm

17 and on his face and all that.

18 ’ s back She 1 s still

19 trapped in the building.

20 Well, basically, when I started

21 walking, there was no walls or anything.

22 Were you by yourself?

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1 but I think that I might have been saying , " Somebody

2 help me" or something. Every time I got stuck I know I

3 yelled out, "Somebody please help me."

4 But I just knew I wanted to get to my daughter.

5 So finally I found somebody, and I said -- I grabbed

6 onto him, and I said, "Who are you?" and he told me who

7 he was, but at the time I didn't remember. It was LTC

8 Dudney, and I said, "Can you please help me?"

9 And he said, "I’m not going to leave you. I'm not

10 going to leave you. Come on, let's go," and I said,

11 " Is my daughter okay? '' I was asking him if my daughter

12 was okay even though he didn't know, but he told me

13 that he didn’t know, and I just kept on saying, "I need

14 to get to my daughter. I need to get to my daughter."

15 So he had already been outside and come back in.

16 So we ended up -- he knew the way out, and we ended up

17 climbing over a filing cabinet. There was one person

18 helping people over the filing cabinet. There was

19 another person helping people down the filing cabinet,

2 0 and then —

21 (Interruption to tape.)

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So as soon as they got me over the

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1 filing cabinet, I saw the light. I mean, it was just

2 -- the sunlight. So I just ran outside, and I saw

3 (phonetic) ' an< 3 he had asked me what my

4 name was. And I told him what my name was, and I told

5 him what my name is .

6 And he asked me if I was hurt, and I said, "No, I

7 j us t need to get to my daughter . I just need to get to

8 my daughter. Had the day care been hit?" He said he

9 didn't know. So I ran across, I guess, all the way --

10 I came out around here, and I ran all the way across

11 here and went down this hill.

12 I think there was a highway or a street, I crossed

13 over, and I climbed over the fence. Then as I was

14 running , I noticed why is my hand hurting . So I looked

15 at my hand, and it looked like I had a cut on my hand

16 or something , but I wasn ' t bleeding . This clear stuff

17 was coming out of it .

18 I finally got to my daughter and took her across

19 the street from north parking, and --

2 0 So -^ ou ran t ^ e W&Y aroun< ^' halfway

21 around the outside of the Pentagon?

: Right.

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1 Climbed a fence and ran across the

2 highway?

3 Ran across -- I think it was a

4 highway and then one main road, and so I found my

5 daughter. Well, actually I went to the day care, and

6 there was a guy standing outside not letting anybody

7 in .

8 I said, "I need to get to my daughter. You're not

9 going to let me in to get my daughter?" and he said,

10 "No. They're across the street." So then I ran and

11 then I found one of my co-workers, and I

12 finally got my daughter in my hands , and tears just

13 started rolling down my eyes.

14 And then I had left my car keys in the Pentagon,

15 so I didn't have any way of getting home. So I tried

16 calling my husband, but at that time the phones were --

17 they weren't working.

18 So we tried to ask the policemen if we could use

19 their phone , and they kind of ignored us . And then

20 another police officer came and yelled that there was

21 another plane coming and that we had to go.

22 So me and ^■■Vand my daughter jumped in this

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1 guy ' s car , and X don ' t remember his name . But he said

2 -- he lived all the way in Maryland, but he gave me and

3 my daughter a ride all the way to Springfield and then

4 went back to Maryland and gave my friend ride

5 home. So I was really blessed.

6 He had some kind of truck, like a Four Runner or

7 something like that , or an X- Terra , and we would go one

8 way, and there would be so much traffic that he'd jump

9 over the curb and turn around and go back.

10 So finally I got home, and right before I got home

11 I was able to get in touch with my sister-in-law, and

12 she was home. So she was going to let me in the house.

13 So then I got home, and then my husband looked at my

14 hand and said, "That’s a burn, not a cut. That's why

15 the clear stuff is coming out of it."

16 So I was burned. So I went to an urgent care, and

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they took care of that.

Back to

' : See, because when I was in there, I

was thinking so much stuff. I think one of the reasons

21 why I was kind of calm too was because I think the

22 military kind of’ kicked in because I said to myself, I

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1 said, "I'm not dying in here . " I said, "I'm getting

2 out of here."

3 And I thought of what they said to us about,

4 "Never give up." So that kind of stayed in my head,

5 and I said, "I’m getting out of here." I also thought

6 about my kids. I said to myself, "I am not dying here.

7 I'm getting out of here one way or the other."

8 But I think too it was that light -- that light to

9 me was -- in my opinion , it was God leading me out . So

10 that was -- I think it was a sign to me because it was

11 just shining really really bright.

12 And as I got closer, it got -- it was like -- it

13 was kind of like a guide. It was like -- you know,

14 that ' s just my opinion because it ' s like it came right

15 over to where I was , and it was like something said to

16 me, "Follow that light."

17 But it was like a lot of stuff went through my

18 head, though, but that was part of it too. It was just

19 like the military kicked in.

20 So, basically, while we were waiting for an

21 ambulance to take -- the different military personnel,

22 they came over to make sure we was okay, and like I

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said, they had to keep pouring water on me because I

2 was just burning up.

3 So finally they put me on the ambulance. When I

4 was on the ambulance, I had contacts in my eye, and

5 they were burning. So I asked the lady, I said, "Could

6 you please take them out , please " because they were

7 burning . They were burning .

8 And so from there, they took me to Arlington

9 Hospital, and right away I had to go to the IC

10 [ intensive care] because I had to get breathing

11 treatments because I had a lot of smoke , and my hand

12 my left hand, I had third-degree burns on it.

13 But it had big old blisters like this big, and

14 they were also on my fingers, and that was on both

15 hands. But this one was a second degree. And being

16 the fact that I had a ring on this finger, they had to

17 cut it off, and I had a watch on this hand — matter of

18 fact, it was on my left hand, and they had to cut that

19 off too because it was right there on the big old

20 blister.

21 So I stayed at the -- so I was in the XC for two

22 days. Then they moved me into a regular room. On that

1 first night, though, I don't remember all the people

2 that were there because I was kind of like still kind

3 of in shock.

4 I know it was a couple of Generals. I don’t

5 remember who they were. When I was there the third

6 day, when I was in a regular room, I remember

7 GEN Shinseki because he came by. He came by a couple

times, and I was asking him about

►because

at the time she -- because she was kind of in a state

of shock -- because I didn’t see

^ I didn't see

the people that were on the other side.

All I saw was the people that were basically on
the side that I was on, and so he went to the
Washington Hospital because he found out where she was,
and he checked on her . And I asked him to check on
Scott, Scott Powell.

I don’t know what made me ask him to check on

, but something did. And at the time he
said that he didn't find any information. He wasn't
found. They didn't find anything. And he said that he

would get back to me once he found out some

22 information.

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So the next day, being that this here was not a
burn center, so I guess there really wasn't too much
that Arlington Hospital could do, so the military -- so
this is why I think they were very very helpful, being
that I'm only in the Reserves, GEN Shinseki and the
Sergeant Major of the Army -- I don't know his name.

Yeah. They wanted me to go down
to the -- they suggested that I go down to the Walter
Reed, and so the next day -- you know, I accepted. So
the next day they came and they transferred me down to
Walter Reed, which was that Friday, down to Walter
Reed .

And upon my arrival there , he was

there upon me getting there, and that same day GEN
Shinseki came over also. He came over, along with his
wife, to check to see how -- and that's when I found
out -- when he told me that they had found that

they had found his body.

I think back then they thought something was kind
of wrong with me because I really — I wasn ' t crying or
anything. I was kind of like -- I was smiling, and

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maybe I was kind of blocking it maybe , I mean , because
really the whole time I was in the hospital I really
didn't cry or anything, and I was smiling the whole
time .

But the thing that bothered me when I was in the
hospital was any loud noises because they would come in
at 2-3:00 in the morning, and they used to slam the
doors. But I stayed in the hospital for -- in that
particular hospital, which is Walter Reed, for 20 days.

But as far as the military, they were really
great. They always came and checked on me, and my
unit , my Commander -- I remember his name . His name is
(phonetic) from the 55th MNC (phonetic) , he
came a lot to check on me, and also my Commander -- his
name is CRT --

Captain who?

(phonetic) . He came by
regularly to cheer me up. He called me basically every
day, and he caught me off guard one time. He called
me , and I actually thought he was Bill Clinton because
-- he really got me that time, you know.

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I’m like "This is the President

this is the

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ex-President calling me . " I'm like -- but he called,
and I had plenty of support from the unit and even from
my old unit, which was the 99th TSC. They made me
cards .

And I also had The Army Times come down, people
from The Stars and Stripes a lot of military personnel
coming down to do interviews and stuff.

Let’s take a break here, and let’s get
back to flim^and her wild four-wheel drive ride home.
You said your husband said you were burned --

Yeah.

-- and that’s where we left you.

Well, I had third degree burns on
my hand and a couple of cuts and stuff . So I went to
an urgent care. I didn't want to go to the hospital
and wait. So I got treated there and went home. Then
I tried to find --

Were they aware of where you got hurt?
Right, they knew. So I went home
and tried to call everybody, found out where everybody
was. I visited and and

some other people. That was basically all that was in

22

40

1 the hospital.

2 I actually ended up returning to work that

3 Thursday. So I went to work Thursday, Friday,

4 Saturday, Sunday. Monday X started to feel a little

5 bit sick. Actually I was sick the whole time, but

6 Monday was unbearable. I had a temperature close to

7 105 .

8 So I had to go back to the doctor, and then they

9 looked at my lungs and then looked at my ears , and it

10 turned out I had an ear infection and a lung infection.

11 So in a way, I wish I had gone to the hospital, but I

12 didn't. But I stayed home for about a week and then

13 went back to work again.

14 But I think at that time it was a really hard time

15 for me. The Tuesday after September 11th my daughter

16 — she had fallen at the hospital when I was going to

17 visit So she had a huge nosebleed, and then the

18 week after that I got into a car accident, and then the

19 week after that my house caught on fire.

20 So it was a really tough time for me because

21 everything that happened, happened again, you know, the
fires , the boom, you know, everything . Then there was

22

41

1 my daughter , hut she was okay. So that's basically

2 all. That's basically it.

3 Twenty days went by and then what

4 happened? You were let out of the hospital,

5 discharged?

6 Well, originally X was at Arlington

7 Hospital for three days, and then down at Walter Reed,

8 I was there for 20 days.

9 So after that -- they wanted to keep me there

10 longer, but I was ready to get out of there because it

11 reminded me of the office because it was kind of closed

12 in. I felt like I was getting claustrophobia, and I

13 was just ready to go home because they wanted to make

14 sure that there was someone who was going to be home

15 there to help me with everything.

16 So my mom came down and my family members came

17 down because I just wanted to go home. So once we got

18 that arranged , I went home , and they had this nurse

19 come around for a while, for a couple —

20 (End of Side A, Tape 1.)

21 WKBIBKKF (In progress) as well. Then my

22 appointment -- I had an appointment at 1:00. So at

42

1 12:00, the Workman's Comp, they sent a cab out every

2 day to pick me up to drive to Walter Reed for the burn

3 doctor, the burn specialist, to look at my hand to see

4 what he had to do.

5 After -- also this part I left out. While I was

6 in the hospital there, when the doctors were checking

7 my hand, he saw that on my left hand -- that's the one

8 that had the third-degree burn -- he looked at how deep

9 it was, and he said that he's going to have to do a

10 skin graft. So that was why I was in the hospital

11 before I was released so I could have the skin graft

12 done.

13 After a couple days — because right after the

14 skin graft, they had to -- I guess during that — when

15 they did the skin graft, they had to put staples in it

16 to hold the skin down so the skin would I guess kind of

17 like attach itself to the other cells. So after a

18 couple days they pulled them out with a staple remover .

19 Once I was released they gave me Eucerin and

20 Bacitracin to use on my hand and my head and my neck.

21 After that I just had to keep going back and forth

22 to -- for a couple of months I had to go to Walter Reed

43

1 every single day, and then they hind of cut it down to

2 three times a week , and X had to also go down to Fort

3 Belvoir to the occupational therapy to do exercises

4 with my hands and stuff.

5 That was basically it, and that lasted for a

6 couple of months. Then up to now, currently I still

7 have to wear gloves . I have to wear gloves for a year

8 until the skin is completely healed.

9 Can anyone shake your hand --

1 0 Oh , that ' s okay .

11 You had the lung infection and the ear

12 infection. How long did that take to clear up? I’m

13 talking to ^l^^now.

14 Well, x went to the doctor --

15 well, I found out the week after that that I have a

16 lung infection and an ear infection. The ear infection

17 I think cleared up after about a week or something.

18 The week after that when I got in my car accident

19 X still had an infection in my lungs. So I was on

20 ^antibiotics . They had to give me an IV of antibiotics

21 because the doctor said that there wasn't enough oxygen

22 going through my body, that it wasn't healing my lung

44

1 infection or either that the car accident somehow

2 knocked some more fluid into my lungs.

3 So I went to the doctor about a week ago for

4 something else, and they said there's still a slight

5 infection. I’ve always had like a low grade fever, but

6 nothing really -- he said it's not pneumonia or

7 anything like that, but I still have to go . I have to

8 go back again to see what’s going on and why it's not

9 healing. So it's kind of weird.

10 But I injured my back I guess partly from the

11 Pentagon and partly from the car accident. So the car

12 accident, on my side, my car wasn't that badly damaged,

13 but their car was totaled. So I'm trying to fight it

14 right now to see if it's from the Pentagon or from the

15 car accident because I really don't know.

16 But I'm still going to therapy three times a week

17 for my back. That's basically it. But I don't know

18 why my lungs haven't cleared all the way up because I

19 never got to follow up -- the follow up after the

20 antibiotics because Workman's Comp, it got really

21 complicated because Workman's Comp had denied my claims

22 because I got into the car accident.

45

So everything after September 11th I wasn't
covered for. So even the first lung infection and ear
infection. I mean --

Why do you think it wasn't covered?
They said because they thought
that I got into the car accident on the 13th. So I'm
dealing with all that stuff with a lawyer and stuff

like that.

Anything else on this?

Well/ that's why I say I'm supposed

to be going to my therapy, but I haven't been in a

couple of weeks.

Where do you go --

R It’s so far. I have to go all the

way to Walter Reed .

For physical therapy?

t For occupational therapy. And also

I was going to a psychiatrist. I kind of like stopped

going.

How about work? was it easy to get

back to work? How was —

That was one of the hardest

46

1 things. At first, for me, we didn't have to go back to

2 the Pentagon because, of course, our office was gone*

3 So we had a place in Springfield which was real close

4 by to home that we were working out of for a little

5 while.

6 Then the Monday that I found out that I had my ear

7 infection and lung infection, we came to the Taylor

8 Building. And I think coming back to work was the

9 hardest thing , but once I got to used to the building

10 and the environment and stuff like that, it got a

11 little bit better. But it was pretty much the hardest

12 thing.

13 But now I go back to the Pentagon* It took me

14 about four months to actually set foot in -- four or

15 five months before I was able to step foot in the

16 Pentagon. And I go about once a week to do a project

17 that (inaudible) . it was really hard to go back to the

18 Pentagon.

19 Well, as far as me, I just basically

20 -- I came back I think it was a month ago. February

21 the 4th. I think it was February 4th, that was the

22 date that I came back to work.

47

1 So it was kind of strange . I kind of like — it

2 was just strange being in any kind of building. It was

3 kind of scary at first, especially being that this

4 building was tall. So at first I just was working

5 half-days, and then I gradually just started working my

6 regular time.

7 Up to now -- I'd say the only thing that really

8 bothers me now is loud noises. They still really

9 bother me big time. Other than that, it’s okay. I

10 still wouldn't go back to the Pentagon, though. I

11 haven't been back to the Pentagon since, and I don't

12 want to go back in there.

13 Any final words?

14 Well, I can say this. Since the

15 tragedy on 9/11, I think that I look at things

16 differently. I don't put things on hold or say I'm

17 going to do this here again.

18 I look at this way . I look at it you don ’ t know

19 if you’re going to be living tomorrow, so I do whatever

20 -- if there’s something I want to do, I do it right

21 then and there. I don't wait and say I'm going to do

22 it at this time.

48

1 I focus more on my goals that I set out for myself

2 as opposed to before 9/11, I'd say, this here

3 is" (inaudible). I focus -- if I set a goal now, I

4 basically take it more seriously than I did before

5 9/11. I look at things totally different now.

6 1 P rett y much agree with what she

7 said. You look at things -- for a while after

8 September 11th, I looked at the world different. I was

9 standing outside of my house, and instead of looking at

10 it just like how you would normally look at it, I

11 looked it as just land that could be blown up and that

12 it could be j us t gone one day.

13 When I look outside, sometimes I just imagine it

14 all being gone . It ' s kind of weird . But I still have

15 nightmares, and the weird thing about my nightmares is

16 that I'm always in a different position.

17 Like I've had dreams that I was in the World Trade

18 Center. I’ve had dreams that I was outside watching

19 the plane hit. I've had dreams that I was inside the

20 plane, just different aspects. Every different aspect

21 that you could think of, I've been in it in my dream.

22 I think that's basically it, and I'm kind of

49

1 young, and I always thought that I wasn't going to die

2 anytime soon , and now I just realize that you can die

3 any day.

4 And that’s why you have to take

5 things more seriously --

Be prepared.

7 Anything else?

S Yeah. Well, like she was saying as

9 far as the nightmares, I really don't have any

10 nightmares anymore . Before that I was always having

11 some pretty hectic nightmares. One nightmare was the

12 dream I was -- it was like it was a hole in like a

13 tunnel. I was going through it, and as soon as I put

14 my hand underneath there, I saw this fire.

15 It bothered me so bad that I woke up, and I always

16 thought the best thing to do when you ' re scared is read

17 a Bible . So I took out my Bible , and this was like

18 2:00 in the morning because I couldn't go back to

19 sleep. And my heart was beating so fast. So I turned

20 the light on, and I read Psalm 23, and I read it until

21 I couldn't read anymore. I read it until it actually

22 cleared my mind of the dream that I had. It was just

50

1 that bad. I had other dreams about fire, but that was

2 the worst one.

3 But up to this day I don't have any of those

4 nightmares. What I try to do is once or twice a day X

5 try to read the Bible. And what I've tried to do since

6 that happened -- because I think what I get from it is

7 that there's something that He spared -- I think He

8 spared our lives for a reason. There was a reason for

9 it, and there's something that He wants us to do.

10 So I figure that I need to get closer to God. So

11 I guess the reason why I haven't had anymore of those

12 nightmares is I try to read in the Bible as much as I

13 can , try to get closer to God , because you never know

14 when your time is coming. Everybody has a number.

15 It's just that it wasn't our time.

16 The Army would like to use this

17 information in the 9/11 story, and they would like for

18 you to give permission to use this information. I'm

19 going to show you these . It ' s an access to oral

20 history. They're asking you for permission.

21 (The interview was concluded. )